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Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

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Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby Ray » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:17 pm

Cool forum Sean!

Hi all, I thought a defense topic would be interesting for non-professionals to ask questions related to real-life personal protection scenarios. For example, I was at an ATM in the evening a few months ago. I didn't have my CWP renewed yet so I wasn't carrying at the time. I noticed a couple of guys were looking at me from off in the distance and then started walking towards me. I quickly had the machine return my card, got in my car and took-off. They watched me all the way and slowed their approach at that point. While most people may not think that you could justify that as a threatening situation, I didn't need them running at me, with or without weapons visible, for me to feel threatened. My instincts were telling me that I was in a potentially dangerous situation. Even though I realize those guys might have been harmless, why put yourself at risk if red flags are going up?

If I would have continued on at the ATM like everything was fine, and they actually did make a move, having my weapon may not have helped me at that point anyway. Assuming your carrying, is that a situation where you may want to draw and tell them to keep their ground? If so, what then? I am not not sure how a scenario like that should have be handled, neither tactically or legally.

Thanks for any feedback, Ray
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby Mr.StephenChoquette » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:31 pm

I have been in almost the same situation once before and something I read really helped me out. First of all your first instincts are usally the best indicators. There is a awesome book I recommend to all. It is called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. Deals alot with situational awareness and operational mindset but on a street level not a "In country" level.
So what I did was turn around casually and raised my hand up into my workspace and waved. I said rather loudly "evening gentlemen, how you guys doing this fine night" It made them aware that I was aware. It threw them off guard. The whole time I was planting my foot and scanning for any kind of egress and or cover and concealment. Mind you this can all be done in a heartbeat becasue we are supposed to be doing this all the time. ;-)
It may sound like a alot to do but it was no skin off my nose at all and besides running threw scenarios on a daily basis to yourself keeps your brain going strong.
Anyway the two indivduals kinda gave me the cool guy thug nod and walked in a diferent direction. I didnt take a rambo stance or reach or say anything menacing. But what I did do was turn the light on in the kitchen and made the roaches go back into hiding so to speak.
Hope my opinon adds to the great topic. Thanks
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby The Koz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:52 pm

First off, good for you being aware of your surroundings, and listening to your instincts! :!: I do not believe enough people do this.

Mr. StephenChoquette knows a lot more than myself on this matter and has a very good point. I also feel that what you did was good, whether you had your ccw or not! Nothing regrettable happened , and No one got hurt. I'd call that a success.
Roger
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby Ray » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:04 am

Thanks for the feedback. I especially like Mr.Choquette's comment "Make them aware that I am aware". That makes a lot of sense. I will keep an eye out for "The Gift of Fear" book he referenced also....
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby SBeery » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:13 am

Probably, one of the most important keys to staying safe IMO, is one's heightened level of awareness. Most people go through their daily routines in an :? "unaware" state; they are so preoccupied with what is going on in their own little worlds that they do not take the time to keep a conscious effort of what is going on around them. With today's distractions of comfort, such as: smart-phones, texting, GPS's, talking cars, computers, etc. It is very easy for a person to become a target and a victim. You see "them" all the time while driving or at a stop light; head buried down at their phone pecking away! Talking on the phone while walking and carrying their purchases back to their vehicle after a late night shopping spree. Wearing and flashing expensive items while on a night out of partying. Leaving their vehicle running while stepping out to pay and pump gas, or better yet; while getting out to make a withdraw from the ATM by themselves!
These are all real examples of how society goes about their daily business. Personally, I can't go out to dinner with my wife unless I'm sitting with my back against a wall and in plain view of the front entrance. I'm constantly scanning and accessing for threats everywhere I go. It's not paranoia, it is simply training yourself to become "aware" of your surroundings at all times. Avoiding places where criminals like to gather, :twisted: places of nuisance. I can remember what my drill sergeants used to say all the time in Ranger school: :arrow: "STAY ALERT-STAY ALIVE"! : These are my four words to live by :idea: ; it's worked great so far.
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby Ray » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:06 pm

What is the law concerning sheath knife carry in Florida? Could you open carry a 16" Bowie knife, for example?

What about pocket knifes? Is there a size limit w/o a CWP and a different size limit if you have a CWP? I get conflicting answers on this topic depending who I talk to. With all the knowledge on this forum, I figured this would be the place to get the facts!

Thanks, Ray
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby jgatlin » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:26 pm

Ray, I hear this question on a regular basis and I will attempt to answer this to the best of my ability. Basicaly if you take the time to read section 790 you will notice that there is no exemtion for knives as related to open carrying of a weapon in public. The statute says "A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense: (a)A self-defense chemical spray. (b)A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes". Now you may read this and say, well a knife device designed for defensive purposes and while you may interpret it this way others may not and I do not.

That being said there is case law on this that says a common pocket knife is not a weapon unless it is being used as such. Therefore a common pocket knife won't land you in trouble unless you committ a crime and it was an instrument of the crime or you for example assault someone and calim to have a knife and it is latter found in your possession. Now on to your real question, here is the answer you should allways use on all of these type of questions. Ask yourself what will this look like to a jury? Do I really think carrying a sword or machette is going to look like a defensive weapon to a jury? I damn sure wouldn't bet my freedom on it. Also, I have seen these folks who carry these large knives on their hip and to sum it up in a nut shell they are breaking the law, unless they are engaged in hunting, fishing, camping, shooting or are on their own property. So basically carrying a sword or large bowie knife in public is going to result in two things (a)someone is going to call the police on you and (b) you will probably have to pay a lawyer to get you out of the mess your in.

Let me add this last thing because I don't think I covered it. If you possess a concealed weapons license then you may carry a large knife concealed on your person, but it must be concealed to comply with the law. Therefore, I ask you why carry it in the first place? A firearm is much more efficent and defensible in court and I wouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight.

I hope this clearly answers your question about this subject, I really suggest reading chapter 790 of the Florida statutes on this in its entirety because I don't want there to be any confusion.
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby Ray » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:45 pm

Thank you, I understand. That all makes sense. I appreciate the feedback!
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Re: Personal Defense - Tactics / Laws

Postby SBeery » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:13 pm

+1 on that JR; Great job explaining that portion of 790. :banana:
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